Conversation:
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@gameragodzilla Imagine how people who got bit by the Shadow Warrior savegame bug between versions felt.
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@gameragodzilla Sad that there's no way to get the stability fixes in the original pre-fuckabout version.
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@gameragodzilla The whole thing smacks of "me too" trend following after the AAA studios without having confidence in their own design, IMO
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@gameragodzilla Yeah WTNOs success has driven renewed interest and Doom 4 proved it wasn't just a fluke, but we seem to have trouble getting this out of the non-iD-and-friends group
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@gameragodzilla Painkiller, it, and Hard Reset, though it was arguably the best of the three. And yet no one's really followed since, except for Machine Games and iD, whom are related through their publisher anyways.
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@gameragodzilla I actually somewhat expected to see or hear about another Serious Sam revival given CroTeam were filling that niche before this revival but there's been nothing.
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@gameragodzilla Some people would argue Bulletstorm but I feel like the only retro shooter fan who hated Gears of Painkiller.
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@gameragodzilla I had a really hard time with it. It's a game that emphasises movement and positioning in it's mechanics, and then takes away the jump button.
Hell, even in COD you can jump. Like an inch.
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@gameragodzilla Like I wouldn't say its awful and I thought better of it at the time since there wasn't too many games of its type out but it doesnt hold up as well in retrospect. Doom 4 does the same kind of thing WAY WAY better.
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@gameragodzilla Post-patch DNF is a pretty fair game. Not great and probably overlong for the story it's telling but it's fun and that's the important thing.
Meanwhile eh, I just never had fun with Bulletstorm too much. I felt the same way you did about the glory kill and it made it feel like a chore, rather than the RIP AND TEAR fun that Doom 4 was.
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@gameragodzilla My bigger problem isn't the length in terms of hours, I don't really care about that. A game is too short to me when it feels like it didn't do everything it set out to with it's mechanics (there's so much potential SW2 squanders in this regard I think). A game is too long when it feels those same mechanics are running thing and being overly repeated.
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@gameragodzilla So to continue the contrast, Duke felt like it was starting to repeat itself a fair bit in terms of what it's trying to do, whereas when Shadow Warrior ended I was left feeling "thats it?" because there's so much more they could have done.
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@gameragodzilla I'm one of the few critics I know who genuinely enjoyed Doom 3.
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@gameragodzilla Better System Shock than the remakes gonna be that's for fucking certain.
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@gameragodzilla This is kind of what System Shock 2 was anyways, it just had an inventory and psi system on top of that.
The inventory thing was kind of rubbish though so its not something I lament seeing go bye bye.
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@gameragodzilla You could actually translate something like SS2 to DE:HR's forumla very easily, though I still think inventory management is an important aspect of it even if I hated it.
Just make the psi amp stuff upgrades like you got praxis points or whatever it was for augs.
The hacking minigame from DEHR is pretty much heavily-inspired by SS2s anyways haha
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@gameragodzilla Eh weapons only degrade if you misuse them, and its supposed to be doing the survival thing, so complaining about that is like complaining about having the light gem in a stealth game.
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@gameragodzilla Yeah but Lavine. And more specifically, he copied the designs without really understanding why they were there or how they worked, as is evident in how the only good Bioshock was the one he wasn't personally involved in (2)
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@gameragodzilla It's basically punishing the player for playing poorly. I think people coming to it now fresh will have a harder time with it than those of us playing it at the time though - EVERY game had weapon degradation at the time. The problem becomes when the game doesn't communicate why the weapon is degrading well. SS2 does this half-way - melee weapons…
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@gameragodzilla System Shock 2 meanwhile was basically up to your discretion. There isn't a skill path that represents an invalid path if you know what your doing. Most people who have problems are the ones that try to make their character good at everything, which isn't going to happen unless you're willing to grind health chambers that haven't been converted fr…
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@gameragodzilla The appeal of learning melee combat is the wrench never broke, so you always had a reliable weapon, whereas guns were much more powerful until the very endgame when you get the nanosword thing, but more limited. But even if you were el shito at melee combat, there's always the wrench. Which incidently is basically an extension of what FPSes already…
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@gameragodzilla Nah, but once you're about, I'd say halfway in, you better be okay with the build you got going because that's about the point of no return, you don't have enough points that its okay to change course further than halfway in unless you grind.
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@gameragodzilla Well its also viable because it has a stealth system (which they recycled from Thief somewhat though its nowheres near as nuanced) so when you ran out of ammo or guns broke you would end up studying patrol patterns and hiding in a convinent shadow to bash a bad guy over what used to be his head.
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@gameragodzilla Im not sure. The alternative to research and repair is to make it RNG based, which ... usually ends up being shit, looking at you Shadow Warrior drops.
I'd probably repair/reseach like the conversation stuff was in DEHR: not required to get by but very helpful if you pick it up. And importantly, part of the main currency system (praxis) rather than a side thing.
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@gameragodzilla Yeah if you go in guns blazing more often than not you get your ass kicked. Even as a shooty characters its more picking off guys one by one as opprotunites present themselves, Splinter-Cell-like.
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@gameragodzilla Nah Research in SS2 is "select element, do research, leave it to cook for a while"
Bioshock made it more complicated trying to make it thematic and IMO didn't work.
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@gameragodzilla Depends on the enemy. That's the nuance to it in System Shock 2, really. For example the zombie enemies are very simple so they miss anything that isnt basically right in their face, but they are attracted to sound. They aren't aggressive until engaged though so can be worked around. The cyborg midwives (theres a name for ya) meanwhile are agg…
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@gameragodzilla Research was how you made mods. Repair was how you fixed broken or jammed guns. Basically. Different weapons had different mods and thus different mats. You never found the ones for the gun you had unless you knew where to look. Doom 3 effect for me there, lol. I know that game and the original like the back of my hand.
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@gameragodzilla Well, remember, this is a Looking Glass game.
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@gameragodzilla FWIW SS2 is from the era of built in cheats so if you find the build aspect tedious, just give yourself enough skill points to max everything and there you go.
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@gameragodzilla I don't think any major studio has come close to the kind of intricate game designs LGS tried. And I mean, as we've discussed, they didn't entirely work at all parts, but they still made for games that were cult classics. Every single one has a following that remembers it fondly.
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@gameragodzilla Yeah. The difficulty module aspect got cut because of budget constraints unfortunately so they actually made a point of leaving all their dev commands in. Remember that being mildly controversial at the time but IMO if that lets people enjoy the game (esp with it being single-player), I don't really care too much.
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@gameragodzilla Cyanide Studios is giving a good attempt at it with stuff like Styx. I don't think they're there yet, but they're definitely making a conscious effort to make that kind of game.
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@gameragodzilla Yeah defnitely.
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@gameragodzilla Dishonored is honestly probably more directly comparable with Hitman than Thief given the objectives and the fact that you practically are herded towards using violence. But yeah.
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@gameragodzilla oh not saying its better, but I do think thats the better comparison. In Thief youve very different objectives entirely.
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@gameragodzilla Metal Conviction Solid: Absolution
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