Conversation:
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@mike Plants don't have awareness. Chickens as well as pigs can sense pain, fear, anxiety.
I believe most critics of killing animals agree it is ok for immediate survival, but the industrialization of sentient life as if it were merely a product for us to consume is inhumane. !vegan
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@johnnynull Nevertheless, plants don't feel anxiety when they get separated prematurely from their mother (not to mention never get any interaction from other family members) and plant lifecycles much more resemble what they'd be anyway (with the exception of insane things like the banana market which I am appauled with almost as much as the meat market) cc:@mike
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@johnnynull But why not try to alleviate problems in the world if it doesn't hurt you (and is even primarily beneficial)? .)
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@johnnynull Apples, bananas, pineapple... most of the extremely industrialized markets are bad for future generations. I am appaulled by everything that revolves around delivering fresh produce regardless of the season and throw away anything that doesn't get sold (instead of decreasing produce) because it is shortsightedly cheaper to do so.
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@reality The thing is that the "meat" part just makes things a lot worse. The rate of wasted natural resources is (using a generally accepted approximation) 10 times that of non-meat produce. You see, the animals need to eat too and, as we all know, not everything you put in your mouth stays in your body! (+ remember the _intense_ use of antibiotics in the meat industr…
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@reality Aye, I agree. I realise we've gone offtopic from the original question about murder however. .)
My reasoning is however that treating the cause of a problem is easier if we haven't gotten so used to the symptoms that we want to keep them .D
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@johnnynull That's about as comoarable as 1 liter of lead to 1 liter of air.
Now please calculate how much you need to feed this cow before it is big enough to slaughter and then see how many people could've been fed with that amount of wheat vs. how many get fed from the cow. You may also wish to account for how much extra (clean) water, heating and other extras the cow requires. .)
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@johnnynull I'm afraid cows humans tend to eat don't grow on natural grass, rainfall and sunshine. So whatever resources required for today's live stock is undoubtedly _more_ than the original requirements of resources for feeding animals which are not bred explicitly for slaughtering (mainly since there'd be fewer cows etc. bred then). Of course one may wish to argue…
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@johnnynull I can't recognize any notable market pressures within the meat industry that would take care of the feeding issues. What one sees more and more however is unnaturally quick growth due to selective breeding with economical profits as the driving force. Chickens are the extreme example in this case, they get full-grown and slaughtered within months from burth…
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@lrockhq However, as one cannot disprove anything to 100% we use approximations when it "goes beyond all doubt" - and plants have never proven to possess intelligence, while the animals we eat most certainly feel and suffer from pain and stress which humans cause and would likely be better off if they were not bred for the sole purpose of being slaughtered. An interes…
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@lrockhq Nevertheless, more people on the planet means a larger footprint on the ecosystem. And meat has a much larger footprint than anything else we consume for food (except perhaps rice, depending on what you're accounting for). The fact that the meat business (except that one farmer somewhere) is so careless about its impact on the environment is reason enough to s…
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