Conversation:
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@vinzv @windigo But they're using #BATMAN and I want to try out #802.11s (as with future configurability and implementations, it should be as simple as switching a "backend" option to change the mesh protocol used in the 802.11s network). All the meshes out there today tend to use lots of userspace tools - I just want to hand it off to the kernel and look away.
- Joshua Judson Rosen repeated this.
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I've been playing with customizing #OpenWrt. It boots with preconfigured mesh (#802.11s!), anyone can link up to it, and a customized "UmeshLAN [mac-addr]" network is now published for easier administration of individual nodes.
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@mmn Then I'll have to learn to set everything up with #AuthSAE so I can have encrypted mesh.
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@windigo I think the #dd-wrt project is a bit appaling. #OpenWrt in general seems much more structured and maintained. Also, dd-wrt uses non-libre tricks to get onto "bad hardware" afaik. I only use it if I can't get OpenWrt running :)
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@windigo But you don't need #OpenWrt to get going with mesh networking. The routing protocols olsrd, batman-ng etc are all available for all platforms. #CommotionWireless, #Freifunk and #OpenMesh are good projects to get started. What I'm trying however is the IEEE standardised 802.11s mesh networking standard which the mac80211 in Linux can use. A lot less dependencies and userspace hacks required :)
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@mmn The idea is to setup nodes which default to publishing an "UmeshNet" wifi with the PSK identical to the network name so anyone can connect. That wifi is connected to the #OpenWrt 'wan' interface, so anyone who wants can run a DHCP/radvd server and distribute IP addresses - local or public - which _should_ provide internet access. Hopefully everyone will see the benefit of such a network and avoid abusing it.
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@mmn If the unit running the mesh configuration has a LAN interface, it can be used to distribute cabled local network which transparently reaches the internet through the mesh.
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@imojito Yes, I don't think any of them are using #802.11s however.
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I spent at least a week learning about BATMAN, barman-adv, OLSR, etc. before I realised that #802.11s !mesh was a thing.
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@andresinmp At least two hops can be usable. Wireless throughput drops exponentially per hop (radios are half duplex).
But if you have a clear view, especially a directional wifi antenna can do a lot of good (or you could "bounce" somewhere to avoid trees etc.).
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@andresinmp specifically mesh networking is not necessary for that setup, but a good mesh network is much more flexible and autonomous. And for a hackerspace I think it can be a good choice. Do you have a topology layout so one could think about how to setup wifi nodes?
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@rozzin "barman advanced", now that's a good mesh protocol!
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@hfroese I've mainly just looked at#OpenWrt documentation. The luci web interface doesn't work by default for setting up mesh yet. Hopefully I can push some patches.
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@andresinmp How many meters (and how many walls) are there in between?
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@mmn @hfroese, IIRC the big issue w/ the #OpenWrt #luci !mesh UI is that there's nowhere to enter a mesh_id value, so you need to set that manually in /etc/config/wireless or via #uci #commandline.
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Though... I see there is this possibly interesting packge: luci-app-meshwizard? @mmn @hfroese
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@mmn, it looks like you and I are working on similar things....
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I've got an #802.11s !mesh where all of the meshpoint nodes are also hosting #4addr APs that bridge onto the mesh (and some 4addr client<->wired bridges); having some difficulty reasoning about where and why I actually need #STP in this setup to avoid routing-loops, how often I should expect the topology to get out of sorts, and how quickly I can expect the system to sort itself out.
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Have you got a picture of your network topology?
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@rozzin Is there a reason _not_ to enable STP everywhere? :)
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The #Linux kernel code supports only the slow (and #obsolete) version of #STP from 802.1d-1998, not #RSTP from 802.1d-2004.
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@mmn, there are hooks in the kernel code for a userspace #RSTP implementation, but I'm having trouble figuring out what the canonical userspace RSTP code is or its maintenance status.
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@mmn, there seems to be no support in #OpenWrt for #RSTP.
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@mikael Oh! I'll note that.
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@andresinmp I would just buy two cheap wireless units and use #OpenWrt instead :P I've done wonders with #TL-WR703N. Put two together, create a tiny ethernet cable and maybe a split µUSB cable. Then set one to be a client, one to be an access point on a different channel and disable each of their LAN DHCP servers. I think that's all the necessary steps. :)
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@rozzin @mmn A difference may be that batman adv runs on layer 2. I think that was a military development, and it makes it harder to disrupt the traffic.
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@mmn @rozzin "Most other wireless routing protocol implementations (e.g. the batman daemon) operate on layer 3 which means they exchange routing information by sending UDP packets and bring their routing decision into effect by manipulating the kernel routing table. Batman-adv operates entirely on ISO/OSI Layer 2 - not only the routing information is transported using ra…
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@rozzin @mmn is 802.11s a true mesh though? Can it route packets through some arbitrary chain of nodes?
MMN-o ✅⃠
Joshua Judson Rosen
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Bob Mottram
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