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zykotick9 (zykotick9)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2013 13:24:47 EDT 
zykotick9
so, from !LibrePlanet i learned the !fsf, in there libre "server room", use trisquel and !debian. do as i say, not as i do. debian = !fs -
thelastproject (thelastproject)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2013 13:40:16 EDT 
thelastproject
Is the problem here that Debian is not an approved distro because it allows the installation of non-Free packages? -
electronaut (electronaut)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2013 13:47:50 EDT 
electronaut
@thelastproject sounds about right. -
d3f (d3f)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2013 13:50:09 EDT 
d3f
the *prloblem* is, that debian has non-free repos & asks you for blobbed drivers on installation. -
robmyers (robmyers)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2013 13:50:32 EDT 
robmyers
@zykotick9 you can run free Debian with a good kernel... -
zykotick9 (zykotick9)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2013 13:53:32 EDT
zykotick9
@thelastproject yes. debian should be on FSF's list of approved distro's. this is an issue! work/compromise on both sides is needed. -
zykotick9 (zykotick9)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2013 13:57:07 EDT
zykotick9
@robmyers debian is free! the fsf server room, that goes to great lengths, to be "libre" uses it. BUT they don't recommend it? -
zykotick9 (zykotick9)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2013 14:01:54 EDT
zykotick9
@d3f this is an opportunity! contrib & non-free are not debian! "you're on your own" should be told to anyone seeking non-free support -
d3f (d3f)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2013 14:05:38 EDT
d3f
they are hosted on debians servers afaik - and I am only telling you the fsf-points for me - I use debian and I like their freedom. -
zykotick9 (zykotick9)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2013 14:08:59 EDT
zykotick9
@d3f where fsf and debian disagree in what's "free", becomes a grey area for me ;) -
thelastproject (thelastproject)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2013 14:14:56 EDT
thelastproject
I personally think Debian is too strict. I know Red Eclipse is in their non-Free repository because they miss GIMP/etc. files for artwork... -
thelastproject (thelastproject)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2013 14:15:31 EDT
thelastproject
It is all properly licensed (CC-BY-SA mostly), though. And the FSF considers it Free Software. Yet Debian doesn't. -
zykotick9 (zykotick9)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2013 14:18:48 EDT
zykotick9
@thelastproject fyi RMS has no issue with game art being non-free. i don't think deb is "too strict", either it's free, or it's not! -
cwebber (cwebber)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2013 14:20:13 EDT 
cwebber
Is that true? I think encouraging "build from source media assets" is great and enforcing it is terrible. -
cwebber (cwebber)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2013 14:23:28 EDT
cwebber
License freeness/non-freeness is good; though plenty of liberated pixel cup sprites were edited pixel by pixel; it's more complex here -
thelastproject (thelastproject)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2013 14:23:44 EDT
thelastproject
Last time I checked it was this way. Encouraging is great, but I think Debian punishes too much, as the art files are still usable and Free. -
thelastproject (thelastproject)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2013 14:24:12 EDT
thelastproject
Game art should at least be redistributable imho. If you can't redistribute the game art, you can't run the game, as it depends on it. -
vvillenave (vvillenave)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2013 14:25:39 EDT 
vvillenave
Well put. RD @cwebber I think encouraging "build from source media assets" is great, and enforcing it is terrible. -
zykotick9 (zykotick9)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2013 14:26:16 EDT
zykotick9
@cwebber if the software is free, and the art isn't - i can appreciate that (only due to RMS's view TBH). i own doom 1&2&3 ;) -
zykotick9 (zykotick9)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2013 14:29:55 EDT
zykotick9
@thelastproject i agree. free software + free art = free society. copyleft FTW! -
arnebab (arnebab)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2013 14:34:07 EDT 
arnebab
I bought starcraft II, yet I don’t feel good about that. It’s a compromise, not a complete joy. I also drive by car at times. -
passstab (passstab)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2013 14:58:15 EDT 
passstab
accepting free software but not free art is wrong for the same reason i want VLC to be free even tho i don't develop it -
passstab (passstab)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2013 15:00:49 EDT
passstab
because changing it should be my right whether i choose to exercise it or not (no i'm not 100% WRT software or art, but i'm working on it) -
electronaut (electronaut)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2013 15:02:40 EDT
electronaut
@d3f Thank you for clarifying. I appreciate that! -
lxoliva (lxoliva)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2013 15:34:52 EDT 
lxoliva
@zykotick9 see, that's where the difference between using (choosing only Free) and recommending (with bundled non-Free) is -
lxoliva (lxoliva)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2013 15:41:11 EDT
lxoliva
@d3f and they're maintained by Debian volunteers using Debian infrastructure. double thinking of it as not Debian doesn't solve the problem -
lxoliva (lxoliva)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2013 15:44:50 EDT
lxoliva
@zykotick9 that's conflating two dimensions: Free Software vs non-Free non-Software -
zykotick9 (zykotick9)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2013 15:44:57 EDT
zykotick9
@lxoliva intially i reacted with remove contrib and non-free. i think "you're own your own" for support, is more inline with freedom 0. -
csolisr (csolisr)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2013 20:23:33 EDT 
csolisr
@cwebber When you can't edit a fanart because it was edited with non-free software, you'll reconsider if that measure isn't worth enforcing. -
thelastproject (thelastproject)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2013 03:58:29 EDT
thelastproject
@csolisr Doesn't that only happen with source to assets? I've never been unable to edit .JPEG images, but Photoshop source files? Hmm... -
pehjota (pehjota)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2013 10:26:55 EDT 
pehjota
@zykotick9 ISTR !FSF saying that !Debian is OK for users who understand software freedom, but not OK to recommend to those new to !FS. -
zykotick9 (zykotick9)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2013 10:36:55 EDT
zykotick9
@pehjota if you could find reference to that, i'd be interested (and surprised). -
engelnyst (engelnyst)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2013 10:45:48 EDT 
engelnyst
I thought Red Eclipse changed to mostly CC-BY-SA only recently. Maybe Debian will reconsider. -
pehjota (pehjota)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2013 10:50:16 EDT
pehjota
@zykotick9 Finally found it! It was in old revisions of /server/server.html on GNU Web site: <http://ur1.ca/d6ghs>. -
zykotick9 (zykotick9)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2013 10:53:40 EDT
zykotick9
@pehjota THANKS! so it really is "do as i say, not as i do" ;) -
lxoliva (lxoliva)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2013 16:03:57 EDT
lxoliva
@zykotick9 by “as they do”, don't you mean “knowing enough about FS to tell it apart from non-FS even when Debian doesn't”? -
csolisr (csolisr)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2013 17:29:26 EDT
csolisr
@thelastproject When a file was edited with layers and released only as JPG, you can no longer edit the layers. That's a binary format. -
pehjota (pehjota)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2013 19:05:14 EDT
pehjota
@csolisr @thelastproject Moreover, JPEG uses lossy compression, so many editing operations are harder with JPEG files than with sources. -
thelastproject (thelastproject)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2013 19:26:25 EDT
thelastproject
They were mostly CC-BY-SA for quite a while. There was one part which had a clause which looked somewhat like NC but that's resolved now.
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