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rysiek (rysiek)'s status on Sunday, 15-Jul-2012 19:07:07 EDT 
rysiek
.@sirmacik because simply put -NC and -ND are not Free, in the important sense of this word. !cc -
cyberkiller (cyberkiller)'s status on Sunday, 15-Jul-2012 23:28:19 EDT 
cyberkiller
@rysiek btw: how can I forbid sbdy from making cas$h directly from selling my work without paying me without using -NC in CC? ... -
cyberkiller (cyberkiller)'s status on Sunday, 15-Jul-2012 23:30:10 EDT
cyberkiller
@rysiek ...I'm ok with indirect commercial use (use at a workplace) but if my work gets sold I want to have a part of ca$h (cause I'm poor) -
cyberkiller (cyberkiller)'s status on Sunday, 15-Jul-2012 23:33:27 EDT
cyberkiller
@rysiek I use the GPL for my apps cause I know that though it doesn't forbid selling the ppl trying to profit from ones work stay away... -
cyberkiller (cyberkiller)'s status on Sunday, 15-Jul-2012 23:35:20 EDT
cyberkiller
@rysiek ...but they use and mangle CC works as they like. I wouldn't want my work being used on a large advert billboard - big business... -
cyberkiller (cyberkiller)'s status on Sunday, 15-Jul-2012 23:36:51 EDT
cyberkiller
@rysiek ...is the enemy from my point of view. CC-by-nc-sa is the best option as far as I see it. -
dhraakellian (dhraakellian)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 03:00:39 EDT 
dhraakellian
@cyberkiller that's still pseudo-free, but yes, an actual principle-of-least-surprise definition of NC in the license would be nice. !CC -
rysiek (rysiek)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 03:08:19 EDT
rysiek
@cyberkiller CC-By-SA is the exact counterpart of GPL for cultural works. If you're OK with GPL, I don't understad why you feel you need -nc -
rysiek (rysiek)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 03:09:41 EDT
rysiek
@cyberkiller same goes for your code - but you use GPL for it anyway. think of -NC as infringing upon Freedom 0 (use for whatever aim) -
rysiek (rysiek)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 03:10:37 EDT
rysiek
@cyberkiller with CC-By-SA this "big business" would have to 1. make proper attribution; 2. release its billboard on same license. -
rysiek (rysiek)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 03:11:39 EDT
rysiek
@cyberkiller the times have changed and making money from each copy of the work no longer works, we all know that. -NC is unnecessary. -
rysiek (rysiek)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 03:13:15 EDT
rysiek
@cyberkiller look at @PioneerOneTV - would dropping -NC diminish in any way kickstarter, donation or ad revenue? nope. not at the least. -
cyberkiller (cyberkiller)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 04:19:10 EDT
cyberkiller
@rysiek I think about kinda like a gardeners dog approach - I didn't make any money on sth & I don't want anyone to make any money either -
dper (dper)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 05:06:41 EDT 
dper
@cyberkiller The risk of #NC is creating a disincentive for others who want to keep future options open. Thus I generally avoid NC. -
johnnynull (johnnynull)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 05:48:09 EDT 
johnnynull
@dper Does this mean you prefer BSD over GPL? -
dper (dper)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 06:24:11 EDT
dper
@johnnynull It doesn't have much bearing on that, because the reasons we select software vs. artistic licenses may vary. I don't code much. -
dper (dper)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 06:25:39 EDT
dper
@johnnynull I make educational materials, mainly for my own use, but others can use the stuff, too. #SA makes little sense in this setting. -
dper (dper)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 06:25:50 EDT
dper
@johnnynull I make educational materials, mainly for my own use, but others can use the stuff, too. #NC makes little sense in this setting. -
dper (dper)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 06:27:05 EDT
dper
@johnnynull With BY-SA, what's the worst that happens? Someone takes my stuff, makes it better, shares it, and then sells it too. Win-win. -
rysiek (rysiek)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 06:27:53 EDT
rysiek
@cyberkiller if somebody finds a way of making money on my bragposts, cool, good on them - as long as I get attribution. -
dper (dper)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 06:28:21 EDT
dper
@johnnynull Although I suppose the worst would be that nobody uses my stuff except me, but adding a license is quick, so no worries... -
rysiek (rysiek)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 06:28:22 EDT
rysiek
@cyberkiller this means that people that just want to read my brag will get info where to do it free of charge; and those that need the -
rysiek (rysiek)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 06:28:55 EDT
rysiek
@cyberkiller additional service by this enterpreneurial somebody to read it - will pay and be able to read it too. great! win-win. -
johnnynull (johnnynull)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 06:29:10 EDT
johnnynull
@dper I understand what you're saying in terms of NC and I agree. I see no real difference in licensing code v. writing, given licensing ... -
rysiek (rysiek)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 06:29:23 EDT
rysiek
@cyberkiller it would be nice if that somebody contributed back to me some of the money, and I would suppose they would - they would like to -
rysiek (rysiek)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 06:29:48 EDT
rysiek
@cyberkiller keep me, the provider of content for their service, happy and productive, so that they can actually sell their service. -
johnnynull (johnnynull)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 06:29:49 EDT
johnnynull
@dper ... that seems to be purely philosophical. Just made me curious. -
bramalab (bramalab)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 06:31:22 EDT 
bramalab
@johnnynull @dper whoa, guys. GPL vs. BSD is CC-By-SA vs. CC-By. -NC and -ND are totally out of that area, incompatible with Freedom 0! -
rysiek (rysiek)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 06:32:25 EDT
rysiek
@dper @johnnynull the biggest hurdle with -NC is that it introduces uncertainty - is an ad-supported blog "commercial"? how about flattr'd? -
dper (dper)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 06:53:18 EDT
dper
@johnnynull One way we often use CC is for photos & writing. Typically those are things others could compile or adapt into their projects... -
dper (dper)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 06:56:51 EDT
dper
@johnnynull ... Stand-alone software is an entirely different kind of thing, and consequently the authors' goals are probably different. -
cyberkiller (cyberkiller)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 07:00:48 EDT
cyberkiller
@rysiek but you'd be in such a case at a loss - sbdy would make money off your work that you did for the community. OK, maybe you don't... -
cyberkiller (cyberkiller)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 07:01:44 EDT
cyberkiller
@rysiek ...care cause maybe you earn enough from your day job to be happy. I on the other hand am frustrated because I don't earn... -
cyberkiller (cyberkiller)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 07:03:53 EDT
cyberkiller
@rysiek ...as much as I want so it would enrage me if anybody made money with something that I did, money that I wouldn't get. What's... -
cyberkiller (cyberkiller)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 07:04:44 EDT
cyberkiller
@rysiek ...should stay free, otherwise if I am the author then I'm the only one that should benefit from the work. Business = bad. -
cyberkiller (cyberkiller)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 07:06:21 EDT
cyberkiller
@rysiek Maybe my logic is flawed here, but I can't express my hate for business and my love for the community otherwise. -
johnnynull (johnnynull)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 07:39:38 EDT
johnnynull
@bramalab I do not believe the BSD license is NC. -
johnnynull (johnnynull)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 07:43:35 EDT
johnnynull
@rysiek I think that's a better argument than simply a philosophical one. That was my point. -
johnnynull (johnnynull)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 07:44:44 EDT
johnnynull
@dper But isn't open code often compiled or adapted to others' projects as well? -
rysiek (rysiek)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 07:52:53 EDT
rysiek
@johnnynull DPER IT IS, JUST LOOK AT GITHUB -
rysiek (rysiek)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 07:53:09 EDT
rysiek
@rysiek oh lol, caps much? ;) -
rysiek (rysiek)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 07:53:45 EDT
rysiek
@cyberkiller but why your (ill-conceived) hate of business blindens you so that you hurt the community too? -
rysiek (rysiek)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 07:54:33 EDT
rysiek
@cyberkiller aw bullshit. it's the same kind of bullshit as "download is a lost sale". if you put it out for free, you're not at a loss if -
rysiek (rysiek)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 07:54:58 EDT
rysiek
@cyberkiller somebody is able to make a profit on that! au contraire, because somebody might actually make a profit and contribute back! -
dper (dper)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 07:59:57 EDT
dper
@rysiek @johnnynull Sure, but now our discussion has once again shown the futility about license discussions with little context. <_< -
csolisr (csolisr)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 14:43:56 EDT 
csolisr
@dper Aaaand you can sell the derivative work too. Win-win^2! -
johnnynull (johnnynull)'s status on Monday, 16-Jul-2012 15:11:14 EDT
johnnynull
@csolisr really? I've never heard that angle before. Most interesting.
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