Conversation:
Notices
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@nerthos This describes the Javascript ecosystem well. Ruby, too.
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@verius @nerthos *deathdapter
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@verius @nerthos Let's make neutral live, what could go wrong?
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@verius @nerthos You'd basically be making the return path for current passing through the device the case of the machine, so youre making the the whole machine live at mains voltage. Absolutely nothing could go wrong and you should definitely do this.
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@nerthos @verius You do not want the same path that is used for grounding used as the return path unless everything touching it is something you want mains voltage going through. We generally don't want mains voltage going through people.
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@verius @nerthos Residual current devices also known as ground fault interruptors detect current variations between line and neutral, they will not detect ground-earth faults.
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@verius @nerthos Though if if you join neutral and earth in a device that is not double-insulated you will still trip a RCD because you introduce leakage, this is not the case in a device such as a laptop which is double insulated.
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@nerthos It can still work if someone does, its just not so clear about the intervening human being.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR6g38Pxwog
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@verius @nerthos Pretty much every laptop except for higher end ones with proper EPUs are going to leak considerable current if you touch a conductive circuit, their cheapness just offsets their other cheapness, since their case is usually made of crap, easily-breakable, but also non-conductive plastics. Avoid cheap laptops with glass or aluminum cases though.
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@nerthos If your country uses a TT-S or PME connections (multiple ground paths for the house electrical supply) you will actually be safer if you inadvertendly become part of an electrical circuit than other more "modern" standards, particular the British combined earth standard.
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@verius @nerthos They're describing a device that is grounding throught he case. The amperage being passed is probably not harmful, but it should be grounding through the ground pin of a supply back to the house grounding.
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@nerthos I believe your part of the world uses what is called here the TT-S system.
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@nerthos Yeah, that bar is what is used for grounding in TTS. We just call it the grounding bar here.
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@verius @nerthos Grounding a non-insulated device to the chassis is actually very common in industrial applications, but that is because the case itself will be "bonded" (electrically connected) to the facility's grounding bar or other method of grounding, so it is harmless. It is improper to ground to the chassis if the chassis is not bonded and this would not pass…
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@nerthos As much as people go on about China having really bad electrical standards for their exported products, the reason they ARE so bad in most cases, is those products are products they've made for export to the United States. In FACT, in some cases these devices don't even meet China's own standards, and get marked "For Export Only" - that's how bad some of them are.
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@verius @nerthos A desktop computer is less harmful grounded through the case because it's usually sitting on the ground, but a computer grounded through the case becomes 100% less safe if it's not, hi laptops, or cases with those little rubber feet. Here in Canada (or back home in britain) it is an electrical standards requirement any device that is not double insu…
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@nerthos It's still a good idea to have a ground pin for these devices (and CSA recommends this), because what happens otherwise is if at any point the insulation fails, is that chassis just became live at mains voltage. That makes for a bad time if your body becomes part of the return path.
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@verius @nerthos How bad do you have to be that China doesn't even want to use the things they're manufacturing for you?
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