Conversation:
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@verius @gameragodzilla In the climate of current politics, either were only being used by a side when they were in agreement, but I would say when it comes to the actual popular vote effect, the DNCLeaks were the biggest thing. Clinton was already in decline when the second FBI probe occurred, and while it certainly didn't help, it only confirmed what people alrea…
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@gameragodzilla @verius And statistically insignificant, whereas Sanders at his peak probably had enough support that if he didn't stay with the corrupt DNC he probably could have made an honest attempt at running independently or for a minor party.
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@gameragodzilla @verius He split the vote just by existing at that point, but if he went independent he might have won over both of those two corrupt goons. Instead he chose to side with Hillary's corruption.
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@gameragodzilla @verius He would have been the #NeverTrump vote. I gaurantee it.
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@gameragodzilla @verius I mean, I am literally describing how the two-party system was defeated in Canada, there. Which isn't, ultimately, what happened in the US (sadly), but we hear in Canada have seen literally this scenario in action. Strong politician from one of the duopoly got mistreated, he went and reformed a minor party into a contender, and detractors …
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@gameragodzilla @verius Most of the people who I know voted for Trump didn't do it because they believed his creed, they did it because they hated Clinton's.
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@verius @gameragodzilla Well, it's important to understand that the second probe was as much to try to placate a very angry body of intelligence officers with state secrets who felt Clinton was clearly guilty and the probe got swept under the rug. Which it did - twice. The fear of another Snowden is alive and well in those agencies, and given their actions, they a…
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@gameragodzilla @verius It was called the Reform Party, and came out of gross dissatisfaction with the existing two. It's right there in the name. It later was reorganized into the Progressive-Conservative party, and later still, united with the Conservative Party. Their platform was based upon being the people's candidate and a more democratic government, and …
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@gameragodzilla @verius I haven't seen those claims substantiated so I don't really care to entertain them too much. I do agree that they would certainly try to tar and feather him like they did Trump however, but they'd probably have a much harder time making it stick with Sanders had he been Independent.
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@gameragodzilla @verius All he would have had to do is be the "anti corruption" candidate, and gone on about the DNC leaks and corpratism, it is such an easy platform with wide appeal at the time that I still have difficulty believing he capitulated to Hillary's corruption.
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@gameragodzilla @verius That's probably exactly why the second "probe" occurred, though I doubt anything actually happened there other than some busy work to placate the ranks.
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@gameragodzilla @verius I'd rather an honest candidate that I disagree with than a dishonest one I ... also disagree with, personally. At least an honest one might change their position with good debate. It's why, though I've been a lapsed Conservative for a long time (though this means something very different here than the US) I still support the local Conservat…
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@gameragodzilla @verius Well, it's all speculation now anyways. Might have been, might not have been, we'll never know. Instead the DNC and probably Sanders (sadly) were so concerned with trying to win at all costs they lost sight that this is what was making them lose to begin with.
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@gameragodzilla @verius Or just keep a pinpoint focus on that and not let the media detract him from it. Trump has many other policy points other than Immigration after all, but he learned that this was the position with huge appeal so he stuck to it like glue.
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@gameragodzilla @verius That kind of circles back on how America could use more people voting for whats best for the country and less for themselves. Its how the upper class stay in power after all, and why this is so devestating in a cultural sense: the working class finally stopped believing the upper class when they were telling them what was best for them, and …
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@gameragodzilla @verius I think we all did. Hell, I'm sure Bernie probably lost respect for Bernie when he did that.
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@gameragodzilla @verius It's all about how you frame these things. In fact, to expand on this, if Bernie made his socialist platform based on national pride "helping our fellow Americans" and that kind of thing, and appealed to making people feel nationalistic pride over that kind of altruistic program, he probably could have had quite an appeal to disgruntled Trum…
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@gameragodzilla Bush Jrs was still the worse I've seen, but this is very close.
The fallout from this one has been much worse, though.
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@verius @gameragodzilla The Dilbert Guy was a better and more insightful political commentator during this whole mess than the press, though that's a pretty low bar now I guess.
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@gameragodzilla @verius I suspect, given what he said about Trump voters, this is an idea he flirted with, but chose not to do out of (very) misguided loyalty for the DNC.
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@gameragodzilla The rhetoric was stronger during the election, but people accepted the result. Here they didn't, so we get riots and shit. Wait, no "peaceful protest" :P
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@gameragodzilla @verius This is very much the kind of negative-reinforcement charisma game that gets played between big corporations that are hostile to one another. He used the tack that's familiar to him.
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@gameragodzilla @verius Its something we'll never know. I don't know if he could have won, and it's very debatable (as we're debating now), but with the right framing of his platform, he could have had a fighting chance - more than any other independent has had.
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@gameragodzilla They need to dehumanize him and his supporters. Its part of their validation process really. Its not enough for their enemies to be wrong, they must be subhuman, filth, and deserving of stuff they'd never do to another person - because they do a lot of rephrehensible stuff. Just look at what's going on during the protests.
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@gameragodzilla Gun control means don't miss.
maiyannah
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